the doll games
shelley and pamela jackson

Pamela: So did you have any awareness of or thoughts about the doll games that Shelley and I were playing?

I knew that they existed. I don't think I really was very knowledgeable about anything about what you were playing, just that there were these involved games. I do remember the B***** with the legs chopped off. [laughs] I always tried to try to bend its legs to try to find a way to make its body make sense. And it didn't ever quite work.

Do you remember us doing it? Did you know about it when we cut off the legs? Or was it later that you came upon it and marveled at it?

Later I came upon it.

So you didn't ever hear us or see us playing with the dolls?

Oh no, I did. I just wasn't involved. I sort of knew you were off in the back room playing or something... Didn't feel welcome I suspect.

Did you wonder about what we were doing?

I think I knew that you had all these interesting and exciting stories going on with all these characters but I didn't know what they were. I might have been less interested if I actually knew what they were.

Well I don't know why you would assume that!

Well, I might have been interested. I just don't think I knew.

Do you remember any of the dolls?

I remember there being a pirate with a peg leg which I thought was – and there were a couple figures which had those action doll things on their side which made one arm go up and I always thought that was really cool.

Did you ever play with them yourself?

I think so. I just don't remember it.

Do you remember the cowboy doll with the blond hair that was actually yours?

Oh yeah, I think I do remember that.

Do you remember Shelley ever hanging it by its neck in order to torture you?

[laughs] No, I don't.

Okay, do you remember Big Josh, who was yours originally too?

What is Big Josh?

Big Josh was an action doll. He had a beard, he was very muscular and tan and had a beard and plastic orange underpants and he was a muscle guy.

Hm, not per se. I do remember the cowboy doll, I just don't remember doing anything with it. I think he was this ugly thing with– he had this brown molded plastic clothing with plastic wrinkles. I remember you had these various sets of clothes which you would put onto various dolls including ones which had their own molded clothes.

Yes. His clothes particularly needed covering up. They were terrible, they covered his whole body. Even his boots were built in.

I think I also remember some doll which– an attempt was made to dye its hair because it was the wrong color and it wound up having its entire head dyed–

Yes, that was a tragedy. That was one of the great tragedies of the doll games, in fact. That was Laurie.

Oh.

And he died.