the doll games
shelley and pamela jackson

[Laughs.] I feel on the spot! Could you turn that light off please? No, I don’t think I have a stump fetish, but I do think it has to do with the idea that the B*****s gave us of what was good and normal and beautiful, and how we always wanted something different from that in order to play out our own fantasies of what we wanted in the world. So maybe losing a limb like B*****s did, enabled them to play out their own story rather than the preordained one, which I think actually makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, it totally makes sense. Do you think you ever thought of that, in relation to this girl?

No, I had no idea. No, I’m sure not. –But it was almost like salivating though, the minute we would start playing with Bad B*****, it would be just like aah, the pace would pick up, and Bad B***** would be in some bush, which was actually a sock curled up, and hiding behind the bush as Ken went to go pick up Good B***** at her camper, but actually then Bad B***** would jump up and make a play for Ken, and Ken being this–unfortunately I can only make him out to be... He was a stupid man. [Laughter.] Swayed by swinging hips. And Bad B***** was just playing with Ken, and he was easily played with, so he was pulled away from Good B*****.

We had guy characters like that, it must be an archetype.

Yeah, you did too? With little brain. And Good B***** too unfortunately had little brain.

So Bad B***** was a little smarter and she was using her power over Ken.

She was smarter and using her power.

Because she wanted him? Or because she wanted to mess up his nice relationship with Good B*****?

I think that life in B*****-land was rather boring and anything to spice it up.

So she would distract him from his date, and then what? Did she lure him into the sock?

They would have make-out sessions and that was definitely led by Alice Ann, because I was not to that place yet, although it was so exciting when she would have them make out. Good B***** would never let Ken make out with her, but Bad B***** was like, Yeah sure, let’s go hump on the rocks.

So what exactly did the dolls do?

I don’t remember. I’ve blocked on it!

You were a little young, did you know what was going on?

I just remember they would make out and kiss. I don’t know if my mind is putting other images in that it has now that I didn’t have then. But I know that Alice Ann would have them Rarr-raurr-raurr-raurr. Kind of rocking off but in a violent form.

[To tape recorder:] She’s rubbing her fists together in an aggressive way.

Yeah, exactly.

We, when we had them really go at it, we would take them and bang them together. We sort of knew that was humorous, because it was just not physically possible to be fucking that way, but it was–

Although eagles do that.

[Mimes banging dolls together.]

That’s better than what we did. Well, I don’t know if better, but it’s certainly exciting.