the doll games
shelley and pamela jackson


interview: molly

And so did Bad B***** ever get punished for this behavior, was there a moral ending?

There was no overhanging person, that was what was interesting. In this land that was initiated by Alice Ann, there was no mother figure or teacher figure, or any kind of judicial figure. So Bad B***** usually just turned out to be someone who was left crying at home because her date never picked her up.

Good B*****?

I mean Good B*****, right. Bad B*****, even though she had to do it through wiling her way into the situation, always came out the winner. Good B***** was kind of like the magnet that never found the other magnet or something.

So even though you called them Good B***** and Bad B*****, you were totally on the side of Bad B*****.

Oh, completely.

So there was no judgement of the sex: the fact that you called her Bad B***** wasn’t you saying that’s naughty, that’s bad behavior. Or was there, secretly?

I think there was the belief that it was bad behavior, but I think that even at that young of an age, there was a complete delight and reaching out for the bad behavior. So that’s interesting, ‘cause I don’t like dualism, and I’m trying always to break away from the dualistic world.

Can’t get much more dualistic than Good B***** Bad B*****!

[Laughing.] No you can’t! But obviously within the dualistic world, I found happiness.

Aw, that’s beautiful.

So when you played with the B*****s, did you have a sense of their having a B***** identity, because of their image in marketing, that went into your idea of who they were, or did you give them a whole new identity in your games?

I think we gave them some personality, but definitely the ones that were newer were smarmier and snottier and less fun in that bad kind of way. But like there was one that I always remember that had a leg that would turn on the –that thing that B*****s’ legs were–they had this kind of metal attachment, and hers came unhooked in one way, so it would like swing or swivel on her hip, and I was very fond of her, and she had this innate personality to me as a young girl.

Because of her wobbly leg. Our Big Josh doll that you just saw, the one whose body parts are all coming off, his legs were always really dangly, and that was always something we found really funny because he was so butch looking, and he presented himself as this muscle-bound hero, but he was always striking these really awkward humorous poses with his legs all tangled up or sort of trailing behind him in some ridiculous position, sort of ballerina-like.

Which is lovely, because of that big head–muscular dude...

So when did you stop playing with dolls?

I wish I could remember.

Were the games totally dependent on Alice Ann?

They were a lot dependent, because Alice Ann was more tapped into being– she had her own hangings on the walls, and stuff like that. I never got to that point. I had posters, but I never made my room a tomb, or a cave, and I think that she had more that personality or that whatever. So in her space it went a lot further than with my sister and I.