the doll games
shelley and pamela jackson


interview: molly

With your sister, did you play your own separate games, that were different from, or inspired by, the Alice Ann games?

Yeah we would play–we tried to, and in some ways did, but because I was older than my sister, I would have to lead, and I don’t want to put myself down as a little kid, but I was a little more sporty minded; I probably wanted to go horseback riding. I couldn’t tap into the bad ways of B*****, because I wasn’t old enough yet really to understand the ways that Alice Ann had snuck into our learning. Which I’m so glad she did!

In the doll games I played with my sister, I was certainly the ringleader, especially for the dirty sex stuff, which early on I don’t think she understood at all. But she had her own little games she played with our little brother, where she got to play the Shelley role, and kind of boss things. But the games were completely different from the ones I played with her, they were adventure games, heroes and stuff like that.

I think when I was playing [with my sister], I always wanted to go on adventures where the dolls would walk upside down on the bunks, and go on other planets, stuff like that.But I don’t have a very good memory of that–I’d like to ask my sister and see what she says.

Do you remember: how did it work with Alice Ann? Do you remember what part you played?

We have a videotape of me being little Red Riding–no, who’s the–? Sleeping Beauty. Alice Ann played Sleeping Beauty, and she was almost twice as big as me, not quite, and I was a little tow-head. I had this little hat on and a little cape, and I was Prince Charming, and I kissed her and woke her. So–we were older than this at the time [of the doll games] but I’m sure I was still playing Prince Charming. Cause I would just laugh and be like [puts on a dopey voice], "OK."

You were happy being the dumb guy who went along with the nasty B***** character.

Exactly. And who liked Bad B***** better.

And so how does this relate to your adult sexuality?

[Silly voice.] I like Bad B*****.

So you were role-playing as a boy. Seriously, do you think that has anything to do with later developments?

I think yes. From the beginning of that film that I saw in which I think I was maybe five. And then–wait, I lost your question.

Whether it affected your adult sexuality or was at least a sort of precursor of it, that you were playing out this boy character in the doll games.

I think you’re right, it was a precursor of it, in terms of just innate personality and who I was, but it affected it as well, because I’ll find myself playing out these very basic roles. I went to visit a girl in San Francisco recently who I got together with. All of a sudden something that had been just wonderful in the heat of the moment turned into me going down there, and I just became like stupid Ken. I became totally Stupid Ken.

So do you think you’re sort of waiting for the Bad B***** to come and swivel her hips at you?

I think I need to break the mold. Because stupid Ken will never get Bad B*****. I’ve learned that.

He’s always just Bad B*****’s toy.